Is -- should mostly-bad Nazi RPS be somehow worse than mostly-bad Boy Band RPS, ignoring their heinous acts for the sake of titillation? Or is this a harmless, even progressively healthy, way of proving the earlier point, taking these infamous figures and making them human, even making them sex objects as easily as is done with any other person -- saying "you will not frighten me," "I will tame you and what you did"?... I think it's easier to do FF on fictional(ized) versions rather than the real thing; to write or read a story about Amon Goeth as played by Ralph Fiennes in "Schindler's List" or Hermann Fegelein as played by Thomas Kretschmann in "Downfall," for example, rather than one about Speer after reading his memoirs or Goering after reading his biography. That way they're already one level removed from reality -- two, I suppose, the first being the history or interviews or books on which the characters are based.
*goes to comment*
*pauses*
*notes down B's comments carefully to cite in RPS paper*
HAHAHA, ALL YOUR CITATION ARE BELONG TO US!
Anyway. :)
There's not much I can add to such an insightful analysis; I definitely agree that most people are probably basing their slash on the fictionalised film characters rather than on the historical figures, and that provides an extra layer of distance. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, there's a certain chill that comes over me when I think of someone slashing, say, Hitler and Himmler after reading Nuremburg testimony that doesn't happen when I think of someone writing that story after seeing "Downfall". It seems more natural, I suppose, and more playful/harmless - entering into the semi-fictional world of the film rather than getting off on the real (or at least only somewhat fictionalised) world of the history. On the other hand, it seems rather more irresponsible; I think that if someone is writing Nazi RPS, they should try to approach the history as closely as they can, so they're really aware of what they're writing and the implications of it. It's protecting yourself too much to write about Fegelein and pretend you're only writing about Thomas Kretschmann, for example.
Is -- should mostly-bad Nazi RPS be somehow worse than mostly-bad Boy Band RPS, ignoring their heinous acts for the sake of titillation?
I love that "heinous acts" could apply to either the Nazis or the boy band here. :)
Or is this a harmless, even progressively healthy, way of proving the earlier point, taking these infamous figures and making them human, even making them sex objects as easily as is done with any other person -- saying "you will not frighten me," "I will tame you and what you did"?
I would even go a step beyond "tame" or humanise. I was talking to a friend about slash recently, and she mentioned that she and a lot of the female slashers she knows are very strong women, and wondered whether there was some part of some female slashers that wanted to top with their characters in the way women can't really top with men in real life - or as she put it, "Some part of you that wants to say to them, 'I'm going to be the one to have you on your back with your ankles in the air.'" And I'm reminded of the writer who said that in any story she wrote, she was necessarily the top because she was in control. So I wonder if Nazi RPS couldn't be used to control, dominate, even punish or ravish these men - and not just them, but perhaps the Holocaust itself and the violent images and gnawing horror that go with our recollections of it?
As you said, it's tough to assess an entire genre, because we don't know how these stories are being used and how responsible (yes, it's my favourite word again) the authors are being to their material. And frankly, reading enough to make a valid assessment would give me the screaming heebee-jeebees, so I won't. :)
no subject
*goes to comment*
*pauses*
*notes down B's comments carefully to cite in RPS paper*
HAHAHA, ALL YOUR CITATION ARE BELONG TO US!
Anyway. :)
There's not much I can add to such an insightful analysis; I definitely agree that most people are probably basing their slash on the fictionalised film characters rather than on the historical figures, and that provides an extra layer of distance. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, there's a certain chill that comes over me when I think of someone slashing, say, Hitler and Himmler after reading Nuremburg testimony that doesn't happen when I think of someone writing that story after seeing "Downfall". It seems more natural, I suppose, and more playful/harmless - entering into the semi-fictional world of the film rather than getting off on the real (or at least only somewhat fictionalised) world of the history. On the other hand, it seems rather more irresponsible; I think that if someone is writing Nazi RPS, they should try to approach the history as closely as they can, so they're really aware of what they're writing and the implications of it. It's protecting yourself too much to write about Fegelein and pretend you're only writing about Thomas Kretschmann, for example.
Is -- should mostly-bad Nazi RPS be somehow worse than mostly-bad Boy Band RPS, ignoring their heinous acts for the sake of titillation?
I love that "heinous acts" could apply to either the Nazis or the boy band here. :)
Or is this a harmless, even progressively healthy, way of proving the earlier point, taking these infamous figures and making them human, even making them sex objects as easily as is done with any other person -- saying "you will not frighten me," "I will tame you and what you did"?
I would even go a step beyond "tame" or humanise. I was talking to a friend about slash recently, and she mentioned that she and a lot of the female slashers she knows are very strong women, and wondered whether there was some part of some female slashers that wanted to top with their characters in the way women can't really top with men in real life - or as she put it, "Some part of you that wants to say to them, 'I'm going to be the one to have you on your back with your ankles in the air.'" And I'm reminded of the writer who said that in any story she wrote, she was necessarily the top because she was in control. So I wonder if Nazi RPS couldn't be used to control, dominate, even punish or ravish these men - and not just them, but perhaps the Holocaust itself and the violent images and gnawing horror that go with our recollections of it?
As you said, it's tough to assess an entire genre, because we don't know how these stories are being used and how responsible (yes, it's my favourite word again) the authors are being to their material. And frankly, reading enough to make a valid assessment would give me the screaming heebee-jeebees, so I won't. :)