Off to the sunny south, but not without some links first.

[bironic]

Conference paper pared down to 10 pages for 20-minute presentation: check.

Majority of workday spent perusing episode commentary, writing a post and many many comments,* polishing the paper, and mentally preparing self for mini-vacation: check.

Packing: nearly complete.

*Some excellent "No Reason" commentary and discussion today by hawkeyecat, linaerys, firestorm717 and moonlash-cc, among many others, if you are so inclined.

Also I posted to house_md asking whether the ducklings are at all like the Scoobies in functioning as mind/heart/spirit/hand or any sort of similar breakdown, but haven't quite gotten the response I was looking for. Ah well.

Oh yes, and Lestat is closing. Sorry, Margaret.

And so adieu, for I must pack my laptop. Cetch up with y'all in nahnty-degree Gawgia. *waves*

Comments

[magdalenrose.livejournal.com]

Aha, here I am surprising you in my ALTERNATIVE INCARNATION.

Yes, I read in the Metro that Lestat was closing, and got very upset. Not, as Cat put it, because it was particularly good, but because it's sad when anything with boys kissing closes.

I'll still be in the States during those two weeks and I suppose I could deign to still visit you even WITHOUT the provision of live boy-on-boy nineteenth-century action.

[bironic.livejournal.com]

Oh good. If we cannot have boys kissing, at least we can have you in the States again. :)

You and Cat must let me know your reactions to "House vs. God" when you have the time.......

Part I of II.

[magdalenrose.livejournal.com]

First thoughts, expressed more clearly to myself in the shower this morning than they are here.

I thought it was very heavy-handed at the beginning. It outlined the issues WAY too clearly. "Oh look, House doesn't trust anyone and House elevates reason over faith to a degree that may be unhealthy, and this could be related to his trust issues!"

I thought the scene where Jesus Boy and Cancer Girl met in the hallway was WAYYYYYY too overdone. I think that seeing the scene through his eyes was too much - when the validity of his experience is the whole question - and I think they made too much out of the "rules-obsessed and scientifically blindfolded doctors separate the sensitive people having a spiritual moment" aspect of the scene.

I also think they glossed over the question of the nature of spiritual experiences that may have a medical basis, such as the kid's tumors. We had one scene that basically existed to show us that Wilson's diplomacy and understanding is interpreted by House as manipulation, and then we were on to the next question. That's a FASCINATING topic, and it deserved more. (My mother's take on the issue is that "the Ancients knew the difference between schizophrenia and spirituality - they make a distinction between prophets and the possessed," but I would have at least liked to have seen it DISCUSSED).

Cat pointed out that the kid and his dad had interestingly complex worldviews, and that the kid's "just because I believe in God doesn't mean I don't believe in germs and toxins" line was good. However, "brash and cynical House versus wide-eyed Jesus-loving boy" kind of made me ill for a while. And House's issues were just way too obvious - he was wearing his heart uncharacteristically on his sleeve.

I thought it got much better during the poker game. The House vs. Wilson debate in the street definitely picked up the pace, and suddenly we got back the guarded/keeps-you-guessing House that we all know and love. However, I wasn't happy with the last line - "you are ... as God made you" is a little too touchy-feely for House/Wilson; it turns a genuinely complex character into "aww, the lovable old curmudgeon, bless 'is 'eart."

Part II of II

[magdalenrose.livejournal.com]

However, in my opinion, the whole episode missed the point. Nobody ever brought up the question that evidence for or against God's existence may not be found in medical charts. The kid briefly mentioned that indisputable evidence of God's existence would defeat the purpose of faith, but he didn't a) make the necessary connection to free will that would make "faith" more meaningful than a test from a cruel God who likes to watch us suffer, or b) address the fact that "God doesn't blatantly show himself" is a little rich when it comes from the mouth of a faith healer, whose whole MINISTRY is to make plain the hand of God in the world.

The fact is that no evidence for or against the existence of God will ever be found by trying to explain why people are healed, just like it will never be found by trying to figure out whether human beings descended from monkeys or not. There will never be a consensus, and by searching after scientific proof of God, that concedes the argument of what is and isn't valid evidence, to science.

The existence of God is a philosophical question, not a scientific one. C.S. Lewis wrote that if natural science were to one day discover everything there is to know about the universe, the fundamental questions of "why is it here?" and "what are we here for?" and "what does it mean?" would still remain the same. Open up my brain and show me where my "Human Rights" are. Show me where in my body is my "Capacity To Love." We believe these things to exist - and to exist WITHIN HUMANS - without any scientific evidence showing us so in accepted medical terms. We believe them to exist because we have sought them using the correct tools.

Yes, you can discuss the necessity of love from an evolutionary point of view, and you can tell me what happens, physiologically, when I am experiencing what I call love. But that's not the same thing as explaining it. It is merely describing what it looks like. You can describe a letter very clearly by discussing the ink it's written with, the paper it's printed on, the shape of the letters, and so on. But that doesn't tell me what the letter means. It doesn't tell me what the content of the letter is or what it's there for.

Ultimately, trying to prove God exists by using him as another item on a checklist for a medical diagnosis is dressing up an apple in an orange peel. And it dismisses the work of thousands of years of theologians and philosophers in favour of the work of a few hundred years of doctors.

[catilinarian.livejournal.com]

My take -

I really loved this episode, more for the House-Wilson interaction than anything else; the poker night scene was brilliant, and House's continuing to push in the face of Wilson's, "Really, seriously, DON'T" was classic. And House's analysis of Wilson's marriages (and, obliquely, of their own relationship) - marvellous, absolutely marvellous. "You EAT neediness." "Lucky for you."

Wilson's relationship with his patient was perfectly done, I thought. Time Out called it "out of character", but it felt beautifully in character to me: his protectiveness of her, his urging her towards an independence that meant she would eventually leave him coupled with a protective resistence towards her receiving a hope that was beyond his control (and might let her down beyond his ability to make things right).

I do agree with some of Margaret's objections; in particular, I would have liked House's annoyance with the boy's faith to build on his line in "Three Stories" about prefering to believe that "this isn't all some kind of test". I think Wilson's analysis that House wants the universe to be run by rules he can understand was a) consistent with that and b) right on the money, but I think it's a shame the waters were muddied so much before that with the somewhat tiresome debate about House's inability to trust.

Also, I would have liked to see more of Chase's seminary background - I mean, someone with that experience MUST have a powerful reaction to this situation, and while it was nice to see him being the one to go and fetch Faith Boy from his epiphany by the waterfall (his sense of quiet understanding in that scene made me wonder if he had seen similar religious fervour in his fellow seminarians, or even in himself, or perhaps never in himself and that's why he left - possibly I'm reading way too much into this, but Chase leading the boy by the shoulder was a strangely poignant image), and I LOVED his score-keeping for House and God, I think further discussion would have been really interesting to watch. In particular, I think it would have been great for Chase to pick up the issue of whether God can work through disease, like the tumours in the boy's brain (because the boy's own insistence that God works within natural law was a little strange coming from a faith healer, but not from a seminarian-turned-doctor), and have House tear into him about it (if God can heal or speak through natural means, can he punish through natural means? Where do we draw the line?). Because Chase did seem fascinated by the "coincidence" of the boy's herpes shrinking Grace's tumours, and the possibility THERE of a miracle occurring through a natural accident.

I did like that the episode wasn't turned a Faith vs. Science grudge match. The boy and his father accepted the role of medicine, and all the doctors except House seemed open to the possibility of some kind of divine influence. The boy's father also played his part with the level of ambiguity and anguish it required; when he refuses to order more tests, saying, "God will take care of him... you don't even know what's wrong with him," he sounds deeply conflicted, and you get the sense that if the doctors had been able to offer just a little more hope, he'd jump on it. And his relationship with his son was a wonderfully messed-up conflation of a father's protectiveness towards his child and a disciple's trust of his prophet.

My problem with the last line, "House, you are as God made you," was not with the line or with RSL's delivery (he sounded somewhere between warily affectionate and bitter, which worked well given what he'd just been through with House), but with the way Hugh Laurie responded to that line. He beamed as if House were taking the comment entirely at face value and toddled happily off, as the writers apparently tried to convince us that everything was All Right Now. That didn't fit either Wilson's well-played ambiguity about House at that moment or House's normal perceptiveness (and paranoia) about what other people are feeling.

[catilinarian.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I'll think of more comments later on, but one side note - given the, erm, position of the boy's herpes sores, does that indicate anything about the KIND of sex he was having? Margaret mentioned early on that she really hoped he was sleeping with boys, and that this was the source of his intense guilt, and I'm not sure if the writers meant to subtly signal that or if I just don't understand the dynamics of herpes outbreaks.

Random Thought from the Library

[catilinarian.livejournal.com]

If the ducklings could be so broken down, would you say the most apt breakdown is Foreman - mind (the one most likely to challenge House on a diagnosis, also the most cool-tempered), Cameron - heart/conscience, and Chase (at least his newly revealed ex-seminarian side) as some version of soul?

*goes back to 600-page books about European security dilemnas*

Re: Part II of II

[bironic.livejournal.com]

I reply with a wry smile to your wonderfully and characteristically passionate response, both because subtlety and understatement are not two of this show's strengths, and because I should have known better than to fish for comments from you about House and Wilson's Big Argument in an episode like that one.

Let's see if I'm capable of responding to some of your points taking into account my lack of theological background, less emphatic negative reaction to the episode, and recent weekend of very little sleep.

House's issues were just way too obvious

Again, the fact of beating watchers over the head with points, a problem that continues and actually worsens through the end of the season. We've been having discussions about that lately, esp. in regard to bouts of psychoanalysis in place of more subtle techniques, but of course I can't at the moment remember where any of them took place.

I think they made too much out of the "rules-obsessed and scientifically blindfolded doctors separate the sensitive people having a spiritual moment" aspect of the scene.

Well, Wilson didn't know they were having a "spiritual moment" -- he caught sight of his patient (etc.) standing deer-in-headlights in the hall as another patient was touching her, and he reacted out of protective instinct. He also told House later that she was "freaked and angry" at first. So it probably took a while for her, and for Wilson, to see it as a spiritual moment. In other words I don't think it was a deliberate act on Wilson's part to destroy some sort of sacred encounter.

Chase would have been more likely than Wilson to see the spiritual element in the meeting, since he was there for the whole thing, but he seemed more concerned with getting Boyd back to his room and not disturbing other patients. Again, the disruption of the maybe-spiritual moment was secondary.

Am I agreeing with you? I don't know.

Nobody ever brought up the question that evidence for or against God's existence may not be found in medical charts.

True, in the sense of the beginning of your next paragraph. I like your point B as well.

And it dismisses the work of thousands of years of theologians and philosophers in favour of the work of a few hundred years of doctors.

Hey, hey, medicine goes back thousands of years too.


Again, I'm afraid I don't have very satisfying responses to your arguments, in part because I don't anticipate great philosophical or theological depth from this show. I was actually quite pleased with the way the House/Boyd dynamic was handled, having expected something even more heavy-handed or trite. Perhaps it's a matter of expectations.

[bironic.livejournal.com]

And House's analysis of Wilson's marriages (and, obliquely, of their own relationship) - marvellous, absolutely marvellous. "You EAT neediness." "Lucky for you."

Seriously, if you love that exchange, go read the analysis and comments over at pun's journal here (http://pun.livejournal.com/200670.html).

Time Out called it "out of character", but it felt beautifully in character to me.

Yes, I thought so too, although I held for a while after the episode aired that he didn't actually sleep with her. Time Out hasn't been paying attention to Wilson if they think that was OOC.

My 1sentence fic is Wilson/Grace; I'm super-glad you've seen "House vs. God" now and can advise on tricky spots.

I think Wilson's analysis that House wants the universe to be run by rules he can understand was a) consistent with that and b) right on the money...

I actually had trouble with Wilson's assertion that House prefers a universe that runs on abstract rules (first of all, why "abstract"?). It seemed too simple and somewhat off the point. It also doesn't jive with dream!Wilson's comment in the finale -- which I'm going to reference here because I think you've already read my summary, but if not then skip to the next paragraph -- that House has rejected everything physical in his life to cope with the devastation of his leg; because part of the theological argument House-vs-God!Wilson seemed to be making was that House refuses to believe in God because there's no physical proof. Or if it didn't come up in "House vs. God" it did in "Damned If You Do" in S1.

Also, I would have liked to see more of Chase's seminary background ... Chase leading the boy by the shoulder was a strangely poignant image

Me too, and same goes for "Euphoria." And it's not just you -- I like the part with Chase and Boyd more every time I watch it.

I think it would have been great for Chase to pick up the issue of whether God can work through disease, like the tumours in the boy's brain (because the boy's own insistence that God works within natural law was a little strange coming from a faith healer, but not from a seminarian-turned-doctor)

An excellent way to execute the discussion you and Margaret wanted to see them tackle. Good point too about how Chase would have been a better voice for the viewpoint than Boyd.

The boy's father also played his part with the level of ambiguity and anguish it required

Ah, I was not pleased with the dad at all; thought him wishy-washy and unconvincing. I was never able to decide whether he believed in God out of personal faith or because his son was so devout. Even his penultimate decision to put his faith in "God" rang false. I found him most poignant when he came into the diagnostics office to ask Cameron and Foreman to talk Boyd out of checking out.

That didn't fit either Wilson's well-played ambiguity about House at that moment or House's normal perceptiveness (and paranoia) about what other people are feeling.

I didn't like House's cutesy little face at the end either. It retroactively pulled Wilson's line down along with it.

See also Sam's comment about how they magically made up (cell phones & driving) before actually making up (last line).

I'm sure I'll think of more comments later on, but one side note - given the, erm, position of the boy's herpes sores, does that indicate anything about the KIND of sex he was having?

Someone on the House medical review blog brought this up and I believe the verdict was that herpes sores can present in areas other than the groin, which was a convenient answer to the censors (though they could have shown everyone's reactions rather than the sore itself). Someone mentioned knowing a patient who had flare-ups on his inner thigh, for instance. So it wouldn't imply what sort of sexual activity Boyd engaged in.

[bironic.livejournal.com]

P.S. It wasn't till today that I realized what you meant by "alternative incarnation." *is quick* Friended you back.

Re: Random Thought from the Library

[bironic.livejournal.com]

That breakdown works, but I was asking about House as part of a four-person team, and I always imagine House as the brain, which leaves Foreman in a tricky spot.

Eugh 600-page books one is required to read.