Through Chapter 14/page 250 (the halfway mark); or, In which Christian makes a proposal and Ana makes a choice.
(First post about the book here)
I don't know what to think anymore.
The writing is still terrible:
There's still no substantial justification for their relationship:
The anthropomorphized subconscious and inner goddess continue to baffle this reader and undermine the rest of the story by being so ridiculous. Just a few for reference:
And there are many moments of ew:
But here's the thing. There is INTERMITTENT REINFORCEMENT.
Like the occasional legitimate LOL:
Like moments of effective sexiness (IMO):
Like how Christian (briefly, sigh) backs away from the rule-setting and consent-seeking when he finds out exactly how inexperienced Ana is.
I have, BTW, added 15 years to Christian's age because it better suits my tastes and his comportment. Which, whoops, keeps throwing me off because I'm like, oh God, your father is going to freak out when he meets your new boyfriend because he's so much older than y—oh wait, no he's not.
Speaking of Christian Grey. Random Darfur reference in Chapter 5. Shady business dealings? No, second Darfur reference a few chapters later, combine with his hangups about not wasting food, reach conclusion: humanitarian aid. Page 237: Ana finally makes the connection when Christian discusses hunger and a global hunger-eradication mission he's been working on. ANA HAS APPARENTLY STILL NOT GOOGLED CHRISTIAN GREY.
All right, so then there was the first sex scene.
I have feelings about first-time sex scenes in fic. (As in, the first time one of the characters has had sex.) There is a mix of sexiness, nervousness, realism, sense of discovery and eventual satisfaction that I like best in such a scene. (When it's a consensual act, that is.) Less with the spoofing, everything-goes-wrong type, and less with the overwrought "after my maidenhead was breached, the most wonderful ache began to build deep inside my most private blah blah" stuff. This scene... did not do well.
I had to go re-read the third part of "Bend It" (Arthur/Eames gymnast AU) afterward; one of my favorite first-time sex scenes in fic.
As for the arrangement being negotiated between them, I can't seem to get a grasp on it yet, but I think it's maybe not as bad as I'd feared. It doesn't help that Ana's opinions on the situation change every two paragraphs and Christian can't hold onto the same mood for more than a few lines of conversation.
Also:
IN CONCLUSION
This is going to go one of two ways: Ana will learn she loves being submissive and masochistic, exploding inner goddess climaxes everywhere; or, as friends have hinted will occur, she'll tolerate Christian's whims until she convinces him to be "normal" and "vanilla" and to make love instead of "fuck… hard," to have a relationship instead of a sex contract, to teach him to accept affection, the poor wounded soul. An interesting third path would have been if they tried it and she didn't like it and he didn't care to be anything other than what he is and that was that, failed mistress #16; Ana then goes on with her life understanding more about herself and what she wants, and she applies that to future partners, should she seek future partners. Something tells me that is not the story we are in for.
...Something tells me future updates won't be this in-depth.
ETA: part three (of three) here
(First post about the book here)
I don't know what to think anymore.
The writing is still terrible:
Dear EL James:
subconscious ≠ conscience
necrophilia ≠ somnophilia*
rotating ≠ circling**
*As in: "We didn't—?" / "Anastasia, you were comatose. Necrophilia is not my thing. I like my women sentient and receptive."
**As in: "slowly he inserts his thumb inside me, rotating it around and around, stroking the front wall of my vagina." That requires what we call a robot wrist.
Also: You can't grin and bite your lip at the same time. You can't have your eyes fly wide open as you blink rapidly. You can't simultaneously pull out your earbuds and freeze.
"Oh my," "holy shit," "oh shit," "holy fuck." This book is like the world's worst villanelle. George Takei is now voicing all the oh mys in my head; once my brain made the connection, I couldn't un-hear him. …This means George Takei is joining us every three pages.
There is constant blushing and lip biting on Ana's part and gasping from both of them.
Characterization is inconsistentand/or Christian Grey has a mood disorder. More on that later.
So many LOLWTF moments:
- "You're very beautiful, Anastasia Steele. I can't wait to be inside you."
Holy shit. His words. He's so seductive.- Amy Studt is singing in my ear about misfits. This song used to mean so much to me; that's because I'm a misfit.
- My lips are parted to accommodate my breathing…
- "The Submissive shall not snack between meals, with the exception of fruit."
- Christian Grey emails his kink mistress from his work account and uses a CEO signature line.
Why does everyone including the billionaire wear Converse?
There's still no substantial justification for their relationship:
"Then why me? I really don't understand."
"Anastasia, I've told you. There's something about you. I can't leave you alone."
The anthropomorphized subconscious and inner goddess continue to baffle this reader and undermine the rest of the story by being so ridiculous. Just a few for reference:
I flush at the waywardness of my subconscious—she's doing her happy dance in a bright red hula skirt at the thought of being his.
My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.
My subconscious purses her lips and mouths the word "ho."
My subconscious glares at me, wagging her long, skinny finger, then morphs into the scales of justice to remind me he could sue if I disclose too much.
And there are many moments of ew:
- She likes his sweat and compares it to a margarita
- He sits naked on a piano bench (I have a thing about sitting naked on furniture, whatever)… and half a scene after Ana says this, she "notices" that actually he's wearing pajama pants. ?
- Christian's controlling behavior—he doesn't want her talking to anyone but him about sex or their relationship
- Ugh, it's not good enough consent if she signs a submission contract without knowing what her limits are or needs will be
But here's the thing. There is INTERMITTENT REINFORCEMENT.
Like the occasional legitimate LOL:
It's a beautiful May morning, Seattle at my feet. Wow, what a view. Christian Grey is fast asleep. Wow, what a view.
Like moments of effective sexiness (IMO):
"I like this harness." (When Christian straps Ana into a helicopter seat, before she learns what he's thinking about.)
Sudden elevator kiss with body pressure against the wall.
When Christian asks permission for each thrust the first time they have sex: "More?" "Yes." "Again?" "Yes."
"He gently pulls my pigtail. 'I love these,' he whispers. '[But] they won't protect you.'"
The idea of now-no-longer-a-virgin-sexcapades as "basic training."
Like how Christian (briefly, sigh) backs away from the rule-setting and consent-seeking when he finds out exactly how inexperienced Ana is.
I have, BTW, added 15 years to Christian's age because it better suits my tastes and his comportment. Which, whoops, keeps throwing me off because I'm like, oh God, your father is going to freak out when he meets your new boyfriend because he's so much older than y—oh wait, no he's not.
Speaking of Christian Grey. Random Darfur reference in Chapter 5. Shady business dealings? No, second Darfur reference a few chapters later, combine with his hangups about not wasting food, reach conclusion: humanitarian aid. Page 237: Ana finally makes the connection when Christian discusses hunger and a global hunger-eradication mission he's been working on. ANA HAS APPARENTLY STILL NOT GOOGLED CHRISTIAN GREY.
All right, so then there was the first sex scene.
I have feelings about first-time sex scenes in fic. (As in, the first time one of the characters has had sex.) There is a mix of sexiness, nervousness, realism, sense of discovery and eventual satisfaction that I like best in such a scene. (When it's a consensual act, that is.) Less with the spoofing, everything-goes-wrong type, and less with the overwrought "after my maidenhead was breached, the most wonderful ache began to build deep inside my most private blah blah" stuff. This scene... did not do well.
- Virgin shaming, awesome. "I just don't understand. You're twenty-one, nearly twenty-two. […] How have you avoided sex? Tell me, please." DEAR AMERICA, NOT EVERYONE [WHO WENT TO COLLEGE] HAS HAD SEX BY THE END OF COLLEGE.
- Aaaand, apparently they don't care about STDs.
- He thrusts in all at once without stretching her beyond one finger. After saying he was going to make an exception and "make love" instead of "fuck" on account of Ana being a virgin.
- This does not detract from her enjoyment of the night.
- He goes slow for the second round.
- More disappointment from a reality check perspective: She comes three times, easily, once while only having her breasts touched.
- See above re: Christian has a robot hand.
+/- At least there is only one "my sex." The flowery language is instead in the exaggerated arousal and climaxing. Then all the usual long-fingered, long-legged, apex of my thighs, etc. etc., coming-on-command glory.
+ This is the only example I can recall where someone else describes early-experience penetration as feeling like a pinch.
I had to go re-read the third part of "Bend It" (Arthur/Eames gymnast AU) afterward; one of my favorite first-time sex scenes in fic.
As for the arrangement being negotiated between them, I can't seem to get a grasp on it yet, but I think it's maybe not as bad as I'd feared. It doesn't help that Ana's opinions on the situation change every two paragraphs and Christian can't hold onto the same mood for more than a few lines of conversation.
Not good: There's kink shaming/boundary policing in the portrayal of Ana's discovery of Christian's sexual preferences. He likes dominance, bondage and whips, but like any "sane person," he wants nothing to do with electricity play, breathplay, piercing, gynecological instruments or watersports.
Good: The contract he sends her is thorough, however embarrassing it is to read. Could be a lot worse way to introduce mainstream readers to dom/sub lifestyle and BDSM. Still, would rather Ana better know herself and Christian before agreeing to submit to him totally for three months.
Not Good: Appendix 3 (Soft Limits). Checking yes or no to a list of kinks is not a fair arrangement in this particular case. You can't ask Ana to define her likes and dislikes and plan to stick with that for three months when she hasn't tried anything on the list. Also, it doesn't seem like a bright idea to put "other" on a limits checklist. Twice.
Good: Ana replies to the proposed contract with thoroughness and a healthy dose of hesitance/skepticism/push-back.
Not Good: I just, I don't get the impression that Ana's curious about bondage, pain or submission. She's going along with it because she wants Christian. That is sad.
Teachable Moment: 'I feel a familiar faint stab of envy. Kate has found herself a normal man, and she looks so happy.' Ana, the word you're looking for is not "normal," it's "compatible."
Not Good: "God, I'd like to give you a good hiding. You'd feel a lot better, and so would I." How the hell do you know she'd feel better?! You barely know her. She's never tried it.
Okay, I'm going to quote a lot now, because it was like watching a tennis match for a couple of chapters trying to figure out if this negotiation was being depicted responsibly.
Good: "Relationships like this are built on honesty and trust," he continues. "If you don't trust me—trust me to know how I'm affecting you, how far I can go with you, how far I can take you—if you can't be honest with me, then we really can't do this." YES. Thank you for finally making this point. So, obviously what you need to do before finalizing and signing a three-month contract is to get to know each other better and earn that trust.
Two lines later: "So it's quite simple, Anastasia. Do you trust me or not?" UGH. YOU DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER.
Good or Not Good? "Did you have similar discussions with, um… the [other] fifteen [women with whom you've done this]?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"Because they were all established submissives. They knew what they wanted out of a relationship with me and generally what I expected. With them, it was just a question of fine-tuning the soft limits, details like that."
Ana is not an established submissive. She doesn't know if she's at all a submissive. You can't enter into a three-month contract with defined limits, hard or soft, with someone who's never tried anything before and expect it to end well if this is supposed to at all reflect the real world. Why can't you just carry on with a less structured experimental period first and draft a contract once you have a better sense of each other and Ana's desires? I don't get it. I don't get whether this exchange is supposed to be showing that Christian is being responsible because he knows Ana needs to have a more in-depth conversation or if it's supposed to make us want to smack him because he's taking an arrangement that worked with experienced women and trying to foist it on someone totally naïve because it's something he wants.
Along the same lines (this power & knowledge imbalance): "It's a calculated guess based on years of experience. I'm right, aren't I?"
I flush and stare down at my hands. That's what I'm hindered by in this game of seduction. He's the only one who knows and understands the rules. I'm just too naïve and inexperienced. My only sphere of reference is Kate, and she doesn't take any shit from men. My other references are all fictional…
How will this lead to informed consent?
Good: Ana rightfully leaves dinner after talking through her desired contract revisions to think everything over, and she doesn't know what she wants to do. She seems fairly self-aware.
'What if I do say yes, and in three months' time he says no, he's had enough of trying to mold me into something I'm not? How will I feel? I'll have emotionally invested three months, doing things I'm not sure I want to do. And if he then says no, agreement over, how could I cope with that level of rejection? Perhaps it's best to back away now…'
Good or Not Good? "I could make you stay," he threatens.
"Yes, you could easily, but I don't want you to."
[…] "You know, when you fell into my office to interview me, you were all 'yes, sir,' 'no, sir.' I thought you were a natural-born submissive. But quite frankly, Anastasia, I'm not sure you have a submissive bone in your delectable body." […]
"You may be right," I breathe.
"I want the chance to explore the possibility that you do," he murmurs […] "I don't know any other way, Anastasia. This is who I am."
…I just don't know. I may not know until the whole book is over.
For now, their relationship seems summed up in this cute little exchange:
"You don't know much," he murmurs.
"You know all the wrong things."
Also:
"If I do this thing… will he be my boyfriend? Go out to bars, the cinema, bowling even, with him?" No, Ana. He will not. And that's not because he likes dominance; it's because he is a billionaire and you are a college student.
IN CONCLUSION
This is going to go one of two ways: Ana will learn she loves being submissive and masochistic, exploding inner goddess climaxes everywhere; or, as friends have hinted will occur, she'll tolerate Christian's whims until she convinces him to be "normal" and "vanilla" and to make love instead of "fuck… hard," to have a relationship instead of a sex contract, to teach him to accept affection, the poor wounded soul. An interesting third path would have been if they tried it and she didn't like it and he didn't care to be anything other than what he is and that was that, failed mistress #16; Ana then goes on with her life understanding more about herself and what she wants, and she applies that to future partners, should she seek future partners. Something tells me that is not the story we are in for.
...Something tells me future updates won't be this in-depth.
ETA: part three (of three) here
no subject
Date: May. 4th, 2013 11:40 pm (UTC)AHAHAHAHA. (Having said that, my husband and I joke in this way quite a bit -- we refer to my habit of rolling over to cuddle with his comatose corpse as "necrosnugglia", so ... I could see it in a tongue-in-cheek context? But, yeah.)
And ... I don't know why you can't grin and bite your lip at the same time? I just tried it, and it's not entirely a natural pose, but it works fine. (There's a bit in one of the Iron Man movies where Gwynneth Paltrow does that and it's super adorable.)
ANYWAY.
I'm really enjoying reading your impressions, and particularly, it's nice to read a critique of these books from a more-or-less neutral point of view, as opposed to a "let us laugh at and kink-shame people who like these books!" point of view. I can tell that these books are Very Much Not My Thing, and I am totally on board with thinky criticism of the books' poor portrayals of consent dynamics, but it still bothers me that fandom is so ... condescending, I guess, towards people who like them. As fans of sci-fi and fantasy shows that are often problematic and frequently terrible, you'd think we would be a little more understanding! I see a lot of the same sentiments expressed towards people for loving "50 Shades" that the non-fannish world uses to condemn fans of sci-fi, fantasy, romance novels, or whatever -- along the lines of wishing to take away those terrible books and replace them with something better, or thinking that someone must be naive or stupid for liking them ... and just, NO, fandom, goddammit, you don't get to judge other people for liking what they like. I wish there was more "Oh, hey, if you like '50 Shades', you might also like [this BDSM fic with more nuanced consent]" as opposed to "oh, honey, *headpats* how can you possibly enjoy that? Let me give you something better to replace that awful thing!"
... SORRY. RANT.
Anyway, I think yours is the first critique of these books I've read that was from a viewpoint of more-or-less "let's see what these books are like, and talk about their good and bad points" rather than "let's reinforce what we already know about how terrible they are!" and, even if they ARE terrible, I still appreciate that. (And I'm finding your reactions very interesting to read!)
On a side note, I don't know if you've been in anime fandom at all, but now I'm wondering if the author may have come of age with anime/manga, because the inner goddess thing is SO VERY ANIME. I don't think I had quite realized that before the quotes you quoted (never having read the books, I've only seen people talking about them) but as soon as I read that, I could INSTANTLY picture this in anime/manga layout, with the inner goddess/her id as a chibi version of herself. And suddenly it made so much sense that way. Specifically, the bits you quoted made me think of the way that (usually teenage) anime fans sometimes depict the visual shorthand of anime literally, with the characters pulling giant mallets out of cartoonspace or snapping into super-deformed mode or whatever. (If you don't have an anime background, imagine Bugs Bunny cartoon conventions depicted literally in fanfic, and you'll see what I mean ...)
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Date: May. 8th, 2013 12:03 am (UTC)*abashed* Yeah, you've called out the weakest example there. I did some tests too and decided that you can smile and bite your lip at the same time but a full-on grin loses some of its stretch when you do it. Mostly though TBH I was just so sick of the constant lip biting that to have her bite her lip in one paragraph and grin in the next and then be chastised by Christian for biting her lip in the next paragraph pushed me over the edge. How about this one as an alternative "I guess it's possible, but it's not really natural and probably would have been better served if you'd picked just one" example?
it's nice to read a critique of these books from a more-or-less neutral point of view, as opposed to a "let us laugh at and kink-shame people who like these books!" point of view [... or] rather than "let's reinforce what we already know about how terrible they are!"
I really appreciate you saying that, both because I've been wanting to read a more reasonable review from a fandom-minded person (not that I've poked around much to find one, though, TBH) and because it can feel risky to look for something to like (let alone find something to like) in a media source that so many fellow flisters/circlers scoff at -- or in general to have an unpopular fannish opinion. You have a great point that fandom is not always exactly an arbiter of taste! And that we try so often not to shame our friends for what they like, but then sometimes turn that derision on others.
the inner goddess thing is SO VERY ANIME
OH! That is really interesting. I totally agree that the references make a lot more sense if you visualize them as little angel/devil/chibi characters. Will have to see if any book reviews or author interviews confirm that connection. Still, though, it felt really out of place in the narrative, and made Ana seem immature and more than once silly in the middle of what were supposed to be serious scenes.
no subject
Date: May. 8th, 2013 12:23 am (UTC)His brow furrows, his eyes widening.
*sporfles*
Yeah, I do see what you mean, and I can only imagine how annoying it must be over the course of an entire book. (I still remember rather vividly reading a self-published SF novel that described every time a character went through a door. Or brushed their teeth. Or cooked a meal. There was an interesting story somewhere in there, but it got lost in all the repetitive mundanity that a decent editor would have hacked out, to the point where all I could think was how many goddamn doors and elevators there were on that spaceship ....)
Still, though, it felt really out of place in the narrative, and made Ana seem immature and more than once silly in the middle of what were supposed to be serious scenes.
Ohhhh, yes, it's completely silly and affected! It's something that is usually an instant backbutton thing for me in anime fanfic. But it's common enough that I can see someone picking up those narrative conventions (or maybe just reading manga and reinventing the wheel, so to speak) and importing them into a different fandom. Unfortunately.
And yeah, I guess I just wish ... I wish that fannish people would more often use "50 Shades" to open a dialogue about BDSM and consent and alternate lifestyles rather than using it as an in-group/out-group way of shaming people for not knowing more than they do, you know? Everyone starts somewhere. Fandom has been SUCH an education for me in terms of different lifestyle dynamics and kinks, but I'm not sure how easily I would have gotten there if I'd been laughed at for asking dumb questions and making mistakes at the beginning, or had lots of people telling me that my fannish love objects were bad and silly and I shouldn't like them. (Well, okay, now that I've said this, I'm thinking of all the ways we still do this to each other, from ship wars to sporking Mary Sues. Maybe I should say, instead, that in a perfect world we'd all be more accepting of each other's diverse interests and more tolerant of the irrational chemistry that makes us fall in love with bad books and problematic source texts!)
Anyway, I've been really enjoying reading your take on the books. :)
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Date: May. 8th, 2013 01:54 am (UTC)Re: doors, elevators, and tooth brushing: In addition to Ana using Christian's toothbrush twice to get closer to him (ew, but subjective ew I guess), odd fixations in this book included Ana's apparent total lack of appetite and ... other stuff I've already forgotten. Frequent comparisons to Tess of the D'Urbervilles, which follows the Twilight tradition of patterning each book's plot or relationship crisis on a work of classic literature (Romeo & Juliet, Wuthering Heights) that just comes across as embarrassing for everybody.
Also, Yes in general to your paragraph about fannish evolution. Someone could easily have lectured me about realism when I was 17/18/19 and getting into the explicit fic/kink fic that was like discovering I wasn't the only one in the world with particular tastes - I know I couldn't tolerate now what I devoured back then - but it could have stopped me from diving into a series of fandom communities, and then I wouldn't have learned so much about myself and how to articulate my desires and how to be confident because I knew I wasn't alone and how to write better/non-eyeroll-worthy sex scenes (well, I hope) and and...
In short, I have also been really enjoying your comments. :)
no subject
Date: May. 8th, 2013 07:30 am (UTC)(I am disappointed that there's no "look inside this book" option. I'm sure it would be priceless! I love how it's only rated one star ...)
And yeah, it's kind of difficult, because ... it's obvious from your comments and other people's that the books are appallingly written and problematic in a whole lot of ways. And that should be addressed! But at the same time, I feel as if fandom often crosses a line in the way that we do it. In some ways, I think there are parallels to the way we handle criticism of female characters in the way we deal with problematic female authors. There is lots to criticize in the way that women are written in the media, but then fandom will take it wayyyy across the line and rain down a level of hate on them that male characters don't (usually) get. And I sometimes feel like we do the same thing to female authors, and works by female authors ... If you look at the way that E.L. James and her books are treated, as opposed to an author like, say, John Ringo, who is basically synonymous with badly written, idtastic, problematic books. He doesn't seem to draw down the kind of really personal condemnation and judgment that people heap on E.L. James and those who enjoy her fiction; the sporking that he gets is relatively gentle and not personally directed, for the most part, whereas I've seen people say things like they wish that E.L. James would have her hands cut off so she can't write any more books.
On the other hand, maybe it's just a personal squick of mine, akin to my personal squick for fanning-by-hating: I don't really get the appeal of intense negative criticism and author-hate, so I might just be overreacting to something that is relatively innocent and even well intentioned.
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Date: May. 5th, 2013 07:30 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: May. 7th, 2013 11:32 pm (UTC)